timing chain - NICOclub

How To Fix an Incorrectly Installed Lower Timing Chain

November 22, 2009 by Greg

"incorrectly-installed-timing-chain"

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1991-1994 Nissan 240sx



This article will cover how to fix an incorrectly installed lower timing chain without removing the lower front cover.  If you have to turn your distributor all the way to the right or left to get it close to correct timing, chances are this is your problem. If you can not get your distributor to line up how it is supposed to, this also might be your problem. This made timing a living hell for me, and I finally figured it out.

240sx KA24DE Timing Chain Kit and Timing Cover NEW!

Note: if you are rebuilding a KA24DE, ALWAYS line up the colored marks on the chain!! The chain IS just a chain, but the idler sprocket MUST be in time with the crank sprocket!


1. Set your motor to TDC on compression stroke. What I do is take out my #1 spark plug, then reinstall the spark plug boot. I crank the motor over until the boot comes flying out, and then I put a socket on the crank pulley, and set it to exact TDC. Should look like this:



MAKE SURE NOT TO TURN THE MOTOR AT ALL DURING THIS ENTIRE PROCESS.

2. Take off your valve cover (10MM bolts)

3. Take off your front timing cover, 12MM socket

4. Remove your cam sprockets, upper tensioner, and cam chain.

5. Now take a look at your idler sprocket (the sprocket that bolts into your cylinder head). If the notch on the sprocket is not exactly where it is in this picture, then you need to fix it. Loosen the idler sprocket bolt, you'll need either an impact or breaker bar, BUT DON'T TAKE IT OFF YET. You have to find a way to keep tension on the lower chain, or else it will collapse and skip teeth and cause you to have to take off your whole front cover, which is a pain. I used my EGR tube and shoved it between both sides of the chain. Once you do that you can take it off.

 


6. After you get it to the right position, you can reinstall the cam chain. But make sure to line up the links. Just like this.-Bottom notch
 

 
-Cam notches
 

 
7. Make sure your idler sprocket is torqued to 65 ft lbs, and cam bolts at 80 lbs. I know that the FSM says to make the cam bolts tighter than that, but remember your cams are old, and you don't want to crack them (I have done it before).


8. Reinstall the upper tensioner (QUARTER TURN PAST SNUG OR IT WILL STRIP), take out or replace your timing chain guides if you still have them.

9. Make sure everything is perfect one last time, then install upper front timing cover with RTV.

10. Install valve cover.

11. Install distributor with the rotor pointing directly at #1 spark plug. If S13, it should be perfectly horizontal, if S14 it should slightly point up.

12. Done!

I hope this helps a few people out. I know that this is not a common problem, but it happened to me, so it must happen to other people too.

Ready for some more 240sx helpful hints and tips? Check out www.240sxTech.com!



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1991-1994 Nissan 240sx



This article will cover how to fix an incorrectly installed lower timing chain without removing the lower front cover.  If you have to turn your distributor all the way to the right or left to get it close to correct timing, chances are this is your problem. If you can not get your distributor to line up how it is supposed to, this also might be your problem. This made timing a living hell for me, and I finally figured it out.

240sx KA24DE Timing Chain Kit and Timing Cover NEW!

Note: if you are rebuilding a KA24DE, ALWAYS line up the colored marks on the chain!! The chain IS just a chain, but the idler sprocket MUST be in time with the crank sprocket!


1. Set your motor to TDC on compression stroke. What I do is take out my #1 spark plug, then reinstall the spark plug boot. I crank the motor over until the boot comes flying out, and then I put a socket on the crank pulley, and set it to exact TDC. Should look like this:



MAKE SURE NOT TO TURN THE MOTOR AT ALL DURING THIS ENTIRE PROCESS.

2. Take off your valve cover (10MM bolts)

3. Take off your front timing cover, 12MM socket

4. Remove your cam sprockets, upper tensioner, and cam chain.

5. Now take a look at your idler sprocket (the sprocket that bolts into your cylinder head). If the notch on the sprocket is not exactly where it is in this picture, then you need to fix it. Loosen the idler sprocket bolt, you'll need either an impact or breaker bar, BUT DON'T TAKE IT OFF YET. You have to find a way to keep tension on the lower chain, or else it will collapse and skip teeth and cause you to have to take off your whole front cover, which is a pain. I used my EGR tube and shoved it between both sides of the chain. Once you do that you can take it off.

 


6. After you get it to the right position, you can reinstall the cam chain. But make sure to line up the links. Just like this.-Bottom notch
 

 
-Cam notches
 

 
7. Make sure your idler sprocket is torqued to 65 ft lbs, and cam bolts at 80 lbs. I know that the FSM says to make the cam bolts tighter than that, but remember your cams are old, and you don't want to crack them (I have done it before).


8. Reinstall the upper tensioner (QUARTER TURN PAST SNUG OR IT WILL STRIP), take out or replace your timing chain guides if you still have them.

9. Make sure everything is perfect one last time, then install upper front timing cover with RTV.

10. Install valve cover.

11. Install distributor with the rotor pointing directly at #1 spark plug. If S13, it should be perfectly horizontal, if S14 it should slightly point up.

12. Done!

I hope this helps a few people out. I know that this is not a common problem, but it happened to me, so it must happen to other people too.

Ready for some more 240sx helpful hints and tips? Check out www.240sxTech.com!



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"

1991-1994 Nissan 240sx This article will cover how to fix an incorrectly installed lower timing chain without removing the lower front cover. If you have to turn your distributor all the way to the right or left to get it close to correct timing, chances are this is your problem. If you can not get […]

Replace Timing Chain on a 240sx

February 19, 2009 by Greg

"replace-timing-chain-240sx"

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                    [post_content] => Technical Articles: Replacing the timing chain on your Nissan 240sx

Can I replace my own timing chain (or, better yet, why would I want to)?


First, a few simple hints. Pull the front tires off to improve access. It helped a bundle. Be very careful pulling the drive pulley off. I broke one of the flanges off of mine and had to call about fifty junkyards to find a new one (ran me $25). Finally, the oil pan does not take a seal, only RTV. The book did not make this clear and five different parts stores (including the Nissan dealership) said "We don't carry it" instead of "You don't need it".

Pull out the fan shroud to get yourself some working space and have at it. The pumps and whatnot come off the face pretty easily.Valve cover was a pain with all the connections, so I just flipped it to one side. Someone else said have an assistant put the car in gear and stand on the brake to get the drive pulley off, good idea. I just jammed my 10" extension in the holes of the cam sprocket and pulled against that.

The book says pull the oil pan all the way off. I had to jack up the engine in the mounts and hit it with a hammer to get it out. It is positioned under the front end cross bracing and the steering crap. Getting it back on was even worse since I had to attach the suction tube line with one hand through a 1/2" gap. I even dropped my wrench in the pan once. My advice, I'm pretty sure you can just drop the pan to get the front cover free and never really take it off. Would have saved me about a month.

Changing the chain was no big deal. Put the front cover and stuff back on. Tighten the drive pulley bolt with all 140lb or so the book recommends. I didn't (just kinda guessed at it) and, what do you know, it stripped out the keyway on me and broke free. Lucky I didn't hurt the crankshaft too bad (I really don't want to pull that oil pan off again).

All in all, the job isn't real complicated (looking back on it, it's easier to say that). Just learn from my mistakes and you should be able to make it in a long weekend at worst.

Timing Chain Parts List

I picked up all the parts yesterday, for my SOHC chain replacement consisting of:

1- Crankshaft Sprocket 13021-53J00
1- Front Cover O-Ring Seal (Front) 15066-40F01
1- Front Cover O-Ring Seal (Rear) 15066-40F11
1- Crankshaft Front Seal 13510-53J10
1- Camshaft Sprocket 13024-40F00
1- Timing Chain 13028-8B000
1- Timing Chain Tensioner 13070-40F06
1- Timing Chain Guide 13091-40F15
1- Timing Chain Guide 13085-40F10
2- Timing Chain Guide Bolt 13075-40F10

If you have comments or questions about this article, here's a great place to start: 240sx Timing Chain Replacement

 
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            [post_content] => Technical Articles: Replacing the timing chain on your Nissan 240sx

Can I replace my own timing chain (or, better yet, why would I want to)?


First, a few simple hints. Pull the front tires off to improve access. It helped a bundle. Be very careful pulling the drive pulley off. I broke one of the flanges off of mine and had to call about fifty junkyards to find a new one (ran me $25). Finally, the oil pan does not take a seal, only RTV. The book did not make this clear and five different parts stores (including the Nissan dealership) said "We don't carry it" instead of "You don't need it".

Pull out the fan shroud to get yourself some working space and have at it. The pumps and whatnot come off the face pretty easily.Valve cover was a pain with all the connections, so I just flipped it to one side. Someone else said have an assistant put the car in gear and stand on the brake to get the drive pulley off, good idea. I just jammed my 10" extension in the holes of the cam sprocket and pulled against that.

The book says pull the oil pan all the way off. I had to jack up the engine in the mounts and hit it with a hammer to get it out. It is positioned under the front end cross bracing and the steering crap. Getting it back on was even worse since I had to attach the suction tube line with one hand through a 1/2" gap. I even dropped my wrench in the pan once. My advice, I'm pretty sure you can just drop the pan to get the front cover free and never really take it off. Would have saved me about a month.

Changing the chain was no big deal. Put the front cover and stuff back on. Tighten the drive pulley bolt with all 140lb or so the book recommends. I didn't (just kinda guessed at it) and, what do you know, it stripped out the keyway on me and broke free. Lucky I didn't hurt the crankshaft too bad (I really don't want to pull that oil pan off again).

All in all, the job isn't real complicated (looking back on it, it's easier to say that). Just learn from my mistakes and you should be able to make it in a long weekend at worst.

Timing Chain Parts List

I picked up all the parts yesterday, for my SOHC chain replacement consisting of:

1- Crankshaft Sprocket 13021-53J00
1- Front Cover O-Ring Seal (Front) 15066-40F01
1- Front Cover O-Ring Seal (Rear) 15066-40F11
1- Crankshaft Front Seal 13510-53J10
1- Camshaft Sprocket 13024-40F00
1- Timing Chain 13028-8B000
1- Timing Chain Tensioner 13070-40F06
1- Timing Chain Guide 13091-40F15
1- Timing Chain Guide 13085-40F10
2- Timing Chain Guide Bolt 13075-40F10

If you have comments or questions about this article, here's a great place to start: 240sx Timing Chain Replacement

 
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Technical Articles: Replacing the timing chain on your Nissan 240sx Can I replace my own timing chain (or, better yet, why would I want to)? First, a few simple hints. Pull the front tires off to improve access. It helped a bundle. Be very careful pulling the drive pulley off. I broke one of the […]

Fix Your 240sx Timing Chain Rattle

February 19, 2009 by Greg

"fix-your-timing-chain-rattle"

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                    [post_date] => 2009-02-19 01:38:18
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                    [post_content] => Title: Technical Articles: HOW-TO: Fix Your Timing Chain Rattle

Objective: I'm going to show you how to get rid of the "marble-in-tin-can" noise coming from the front of your 240sx valve cover by removing the two guides for the upper timing chain. The guides are considered unnecessary by Nissan as seen in their TSB. DO NOT REMOVE THE GUIDE FOR LOWER CHAIN. The procedure is written for a 96 S14 but should be similar for all DOHC engines.

Introduction:
There are three possible reasons why your timing chain is making the rattling noise.
1. Oil pressure is low: The tensioners that keep the timing chain tight are operated by oil pressure so if your oil pressure is low then the tensioner will not be working properly hence your chain will flap around and hit the guides.
2. Tensioner is stuck: If you have a lot of oil gunk on your tensioner then the tensioner will be stuck and not extend out all the way to keep the timing chain tight.
3. Tensioner is broken: If your tensioner is mechanically broken then you need to replace it.
Having said that, before you follow this write-up it is a good idea to check your oil pressure. Also, in this write up I will not go over how to replace the tensioner but rather tell you how to clean it while it's still installed.

Difficulty: On a scale from 1~5 (5 being the hardest): 2/5

Time:  Approximately 3 hours, assuming you have no previous experience.

Tools: 
-Metric Sockets including 27mm for the crank bolt
-Ratchet and wobble extensions
-Screwdriver
-Torque wrench
-Breaker bar (not necessary)
-Timing Light
-RTV Liquid Gasket

Procedures:
1. Set your #1 piston at TDC on compression stroke
 -NOTE: You can tell you are at TDC on compression stroke by looking at the cams. As seen in the picture of the cams below, exhaust and intake cam lobes for #1 cylinder should be facing outward. So you might want to open the valve cover first then rotate the crank pulley. If the #1 cylinder cams are facing inwards then just rotate your pulley another 360 degrees until they are facing outwards.
 -Jack up your car and crawl under your car
 -Take a 27mm socket and a breaker bar and rotate the crank pulley clockwise using the crank bolt.
 -Match the notches on the crank pulley with the needle as shown.



 -Lower your car

2. Take off the valve cover
 -Remove the spark plug wires.
-Loosen bolts as shown below.


 -The bolts closest to the firewall might be a bit hard to get to because of wires and brake lines but try to push those away and wobble extension will help.

3. Remove the upper timing chain guide #1
 -Note here the position of the cam lobes on #1 cylinder. They are facing outwards which means its at TDC on compression stroke. If the #1 cylinder cams are facing inwards then just rotate your pulley another 360 degrees until they are facing outwards.
 -Remove the two bolts circled in yellow


 -What my guide looked like. Check out the wear.


4. Take off the distributor.
 -Now before you start taking off the distributor, make a making on the mount as shown below. This will help you with installing everything back with close to correct timing.

 
 -Using a screw driver take off the cap(part that has the spark plug wires attached) off the distributor. There are two screws holding this. One on top and one on bottom. Once you take it off, you should see this. Make a marking on the rotor and the distributor so that when you install it, you know it's in correct position.

 
 - Now, you are ready to take the distributor off. Unbolt the two bolts, circled in yellow, that are holding the distributor. One on top and one on bottom.


 - Tug on the distributor with a bit of force. It should come out with a sound of "pop"

5. Take off the camshaft sprocket cover
 - Here is a picture of the cover with location of the bolts and their torque specs. Please remember to distinguish between lb*in and lb*ft

- You might have to take a rummer mallet and gently tap on cover to get it off.

6. Remove the guide #2 and clean the tensioner
- Remove the two bolts, circled in yellow, to remove the guide #2.


-What my guide looked like.


-Now check the condition of the tensioner. If it's really gunked up with oil then spray some WD-40 and move the tensioner in and out repeatedly (many many times) until it comes out all the way and goes in all the way freely. Here is a video of what I am talking about. http://www-personal.umich.edu/...1.AVI
To make sure that the tensioner is all the way out, try pushing the tensioner towards the chain.

-Check the condition of the bottom tensioner as well. It it's stuck then do the same thing as the upper tensioner. Here is a picture of the lower tensioner


7. Install the camshaft sprocket cover
-Now your guides are gone and your tensioners are working again. It's time to install everything back together.
-Using a plastic scrapper of some sort clean the surface where the camshaft sprocket cover meets the engine. Be careful not to drop any gunk down the front cover.
-Apply your RTV liquid gasket as shown in the picture.

-Install the camshaft sprocket cover and torque to specs. Go easy on the tightening since the head is aluminium and you can easily strip the thread.

8. Install your valve cover
- Put your gasket in the valve cover as shown in the picture.


-Apply RTV sealant at the semi-cricle "ditch" in front of the camshaft and also in the back as shown in the picture.


-Install your valve cover and tighten as shown below. Torque spec is around 7~10 lb*ft


9. Install Distributor.
-Now this is the tricky part...
-If your car is S13, your distributor should look like this when #1 piston is at TDC on compression stroke.


-If your car is S14, you should align the distributor as shown below and it should look like this installed.


-If you made the mark on the rotor before, this would be a simple process assuming your engine did not move.

-Also, your rotor should be perfectly aligned with #1 spark plug wire as shown below.


-Rotate your distributor so that it matches the marking you made on the mounts previously. This should bring you close to the timing you had before.

-Please note the spark plug wire position and install them back.


-Make sure everything is connected and good to go. Start your car and check your timing. If its not in spec, disconnect your throttle position sensor and adjust your idle so that is around 700 +-50 and check your timing. If its out of spec, make sure you installed your distributor correctly and rotate your distributor accordingly to retard or advance timing.


Pat your self on the back and grab a bottle of beer. You are finally done with the infamous timing chain guide noise.


Got questions or comments about this article?  Start here!  240sx Timing Chain Rattle Discussion



                    [post_title] => Fix Your 240sx Timing Chain Rattle
                    [post_excerpt] => Get rid of the noise coming from the front of your valve cover by removing the two guides for the upper chain. The guides are considered unnecessary by Nissan as seen in their TSB.
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            [post_date_gmt] => 2009-02-19 08:38:18
            [post_content] => Title: Technical Articles: HOW-TO: Fix Your Timing Chain Rattle

Objective: I'm going to show you how to get rid of the "marble-in-tin-can" noise coming from the front of your 240sx valve cover by removing the two guides for the upper timing chain. The guides are considered unnecessary by Nissan as seen in their TSB. DO NOT REMOVE THE GUIDE FOR LOWER CHAIN. The procedure is written for a 96 S14 but should be similar for all DOHC engines.

Introduction:
There are three possible reasons why your timing chain is making the rattling noise.
1. Oil pressure is low: The tensioners that keep the timing chain tight are operated by oil pressure so if your oil pressure is low then the tensioner will not be working properly hence your chain will flap around and hit the guides.
2. Tensioner is stuck: If you have a lot of oil gunk on your tensioner then the tensioner will be stuck and not extend out all the way to keep the timing chain tight.
3. Tensioner is broken: If your tensioner is mechanically broken then you need to replace it.
Having said that, before you follow this write-up it is a good idea to check your oil pressure. Also, in this write up I will not go over how to replace the tensioner but rather tell you how to clean it while it's still installed.

Difficulty: On a scale from 1~5 (5 being the hardest): 2/5

Time:  Approximately 3 hours, assuming you have no previous experience.

Tools: 
-Metric Sockets including 27mm for the crank bolt
-Ratchet and wobble extensions
-Screwdriver
-Torque wrench
-Breaker bar (not necessary)
-Timing Light
-RTV Liquid Gasket

Procedures:
1. Set your #1 piston at TDC on compression stroke
 -NOTE: You can tell you are at TDC on compression stroke by looking at the cams. As seen in the picture of the cams below, exhaust and intake cam lobes for #1 cylinder should be facing outward. So you might want to open the valve cover first then rotate the crank pulley. If the #1 cylinder cams are facing inwards then just rotate your pulley another 360 degrees until they are facing outwards.
 -Jack up your car and crawl under your car
 -Take a 27mm socket and a breaker bar and rotate the crank pulley clockwise using the crank bolt.
 -Match the notches on the crank pulley with the needle as shown.



 -Lower your car

2. Take off the valve cover
 -Remove the spark plug wires.
-Loosen bolts as shown below.


 -The bolts closest to the firewall might be a bit hard to get to because of wires and brake lines but try to push those away and wobble extension will help.

3. Remove the upper timing chain guide #1
 -Note here the position of the cam lobes on #1 cylinder. They are facing outwards which means its at TDC on compression stroke. If the #1 cylinder cams are facing inwards then just rotate your pulley another 360 degrees until they are facing outwards.
 -Remove the two bolts circled in yellow


 -What my guide looked like. Check out the wear.


4. Take off the distributor.
 -Now before you start taking off the distributor, make a making on the mount as shown below. This will help you with installing everything back with close to correct timing.

 
 -Using a screw driver take off the cap(part that has the spark plug wires attached) off the distributor. There are two screws holding this. One on top and one on bottom. Once you take it off, you should see this. Make a marking on the rotor and the distributor so that when you install it, you know it's in correct position.

 
 - Now, you are ready to take the distributor off. Unbolt the two bolts, circled in yellow, that are holding the distributor. One on top and one on bottom.


 - Tug on the distributor with a bit of force. It should come out with a sound of "pop"

5. Take off the camshaft sprocket cover
 - Here is a picture of the cover with location of the bolts and their torque specs. Please remember to distinguish between lb*in and lb*ft

- You might have to take a rummer mallet and gently tap on cover to get it off.

6. Remove the guide #2 and clean the tensioner
- Remove the two bolts, circled in yellow, to remove the guide #2.


-What my guide looked like.


-Now check the condition of the tensioner. If it's really gunked up with oil then spray some WD-40 and move the tensioner in and out repeatedly (many many times) until it comes out all the way and goes in all the way freely. Here is a video of what I am talking about. http://www-personal.umich.edu/...1.AVI
To make sure that the tensioner is all the way out, try pushing the tensioner towards the chain.

-Check the condition of the bottom tensioner as well. It it's stuck then do the same thing as the upper tensioner. Here is a picture of the lower tensioner


7. Install the camshaft sprocket cover
-Now your guides are gone and your tensioners are working again. It's time to install everything back together.
-Using a plastic scrapper of some sort clean the surface where the camshaft sprocket cover meets the engine. Be careful not to drop any gunk down the front cover.
-Apply your RTV liquid gasket as shown in the picture.

-Install the camshaft sprocket cover and torque to specs. Go easy on the tightening since the head is aluminium and you can easily strip the thread.

8. Install your valve cover
- Put your gasket in the valve cover as shown in the picture.


-Apply RTV sealant at the semi-cricle "ditch" in front of the camshaft and also in the back as shown in the picture.


-Install your valve cover and tighten as shown below. Torque spec is around 7~10 lb*ft


9. Install Distributor.
-Now this is the tricky part...
-If your car is S13, your distributor should look like this when #1 piston is at TDC on compression stroke.


-If your car is S14, you should align the distributor as shown below and it should look like this installed.


-If you made the mark on the rotor before, this would be a simple process assuming your engine did not move.

-Also, your rotor should be perfectly aligned with #1 spark plug wire as shown below.


-Rotate your distributor so that it matches the marking you made on the mounts previously. This should bring you close to the timing you had before.

-Please note the spark plug wire position and install them back.


-Make sure everything is connected and good to go. Start your car and check your timing. If its not in spec, disconnect your throttle position sensor and adjust your idle so that is around 700 +-50 and check your timing. If its out of spec, make sure you installed your distributor correctly and rotate your distributor accordingly to retard or advance timing.


Pat your self on the back and grab a bottle of beer. You are finally done with the infamous timing chain guide noise.


Got questions or comments about this article?  Start here!  240sx Timing Chain Rattle Discussion



            [post_title] => Fix Your 240sx Timing Chain Rattle
            [post_excerpt] => Get rid of the noise coming from the front of your valve cover by removing the two guides for the upper chain. The guides are considered unnecessary by Nissan as seen in their TSB.
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Get rid of the noise coming from the front of your valve cover by removing the two guides for the upper chain. The guides are considered unnecessary by Nissan as seen in their TSB.